By Garrett Spirnock, Intern
In early October 2024 Kamala Harris joined Alex Cooper on the famed “Call Her Daddy” podcast for a 45-minute long conversation that largely focused on women’s issues and reproductive rights in a post-Roe America. The interview garnered both praise and criticism, with everyone from long-time fans of the podcast to cable news anchors pontificating on the appropriateness and effectiveness of the appearance. As “Call Her Daddy” is the most-listened to podcast by women on Spotify with 5 million weekly listeners and an audience that is 70% women, the appearance was a strategic move. One that aimed at amplifying Harris’s firm stance on reproductive rights to a critical demographic group who cares deeply about the issue.
Both Harris and Trump sat for interviews on podcasts catering to a range of different audiences. Less than two weeks prior to election day, Trump spoke with Joe Rogan on his popular pod “The Joe Rogan Experience” for three hours. Earlier in the cycle, he did interviews on other podcasts streamed primarily by younger men, such as “Full Send Podcast” with the Nelk boys and “This Past Weekend” with Theo Von. The rise in podcast interviews among political figures is a result of the medium’s effectiveness at reaching specific (sometimes elusive) demographics. This shift toward podcasts also serves to democratize the media ecosystem by diversifying the spectrum of interviewers that get to engage with the candidates, and increasing engagement among audiences that do not frequent traditional media outlets.
Harris’s “Call Her Daddy” hit and Trump’s “Joe Rogan Experience” are just two examples of a much broader trend that truly crescendoed in the 2024 election. Candidates took to popular podcasts in an effort to target specific demographics that are less engaged with the traditional media that politicians have historically used to reach voters. And it seems to have paid off, as most men aged 18-44 voted for Trump, and most women aged 18-44 voted for Harris. This abrupt shift away from established, institutional media outlets toward newer forms of communication carries significant political implications and promises to dramatically impact how the American population engages with political figures and policy issues.
Coverage of candidates by a more diverse range of hosts heightens candidate exposure to audiences that are less politically-engaged. Traditional cable news outlets have long been candidates’ go-to method for reaching voters and expressing their policy positions. But today, cable news audiences lean older: MSNBC’s median viewer age is 70, only slightly higher than Fox News’s at 69 and CNN’s at 67. Podcasts reach a significantly younger group—half the age of the legacy outlets’ viewership. The median age of podcast listeners is 34 years old, with Millennials and Gen Z making up 61.6% of US podcast listeners. This stark contrast in age demographics demonstrates the powerful potential of podcasts as tools to engage with young voters where they are at.
Besides reaching a younger audience, podcast interviews have also enabled candidates to concentrate on specific demographic groups by both speaking to them on the podcasts they are loyal to, while also speaking about them by focusing on their priority issues. As previously mentioned, Harris spoke largely about reproductive rights during her “Call Her Daddy” interview with Alex Cooper. In an interview on “All the Smoke” hosted by former NBA players, Harris spoke on issues of racial identity and police brutality to a primarily black male audience. These podcast appearances are further differentiated from traditional media appearances because they are exceptionally longform, unfiltered, and relaxed in style. They give listeners the impression that they are seeing the “real” version of the guest—in sharp contrast to print or broadcast interviews—which deepens the candidate’s connection with these groups by making their messaging more personal, relevant, and impactful.
But despite the benefits, nontraditional media is also becoming a powerful new way to spread misinformation. During Trump’s interview with Joe Rogan, he repeated false statements about election fraud in 2020. Though the voter-fraud conspiracy theory itself is not novel, these false statements were not fact-checked in the long-form, podcast-style interview as they were in traditional cable appearances earlier in the election cycle. Moreover, podcast listeners place deep trust in the shows they tune in to—86% of survey respondents said they trust news from podcasts either “as much” or “more than” the news they receive from other sources. Thus, when hosts allow guests to share misinformation unchecked, they legitimize the falsehoods to an audience who views them as highly credible sources. The drawbacks of podcasting’s new political relevance are as bad, if not worse, than those associated with traditional media. Though the proliferation of nontraditional media interviews may increase political engagement among younger audiences, there are few guardrails preventing the medium from becoming a tool for bad actors to conduct targeted misinformation campaigns.
As with other forms of media consumption, this new method of reaching voters also risks increasing political entrenchment by reinforcing existing ideological frames. Podcast hosts usually speak with guests that their viewers will appreciate. While political candidates are incentivized to go on shows whose audiences are most crucial to their electoral victory, podcast teams are equally incentivized to provide content that their listeners will stream. Many hosts, Cooper and Rogan included, expressed willingness to sit down with the other candidate, but ultimately did not do so before election day. A dynamic like this, where podcasts bring on only those guests which are more appealing to their existing audience demographics, further enforces a loop that prioritizes ideological alignment over balanced dialogue, thereby deepening existing political divides and limiting opportunities for meaningful cross-partisan engagement.
The evolution of podcasts as a platform for political messaging has introduced another communications dynamic for candidates and voters alike. The democratized access, targeted messaging, and audience segmentation offered by the podcast industry may allow candidates to reach voters more directly, but this transformation will also accelerate existing challenges in the media ecosystem. Such a dramatic shift in how people receive their news is consequential for everyone involved in the creation or consumption of news media. All must recognize that this movement toward direct access also comes with increased platforming of misinformation, entrenched ideological divisions, and ultimately a permanent alteration to the political communications landscape.